ive never had use value and exchange value explained to me in a way that makes sense to me, not by marx, nor by anyone trying to explain marx

@velexiraptor classic example is housing. use value of a house is to live in it. that is why a house exists. exchange value is simply how much you could sell the house for on the market. under capitalism, investment structures cause use value to become disconnected from exchange value. e.g. an investor holds on to an empty house because he thinks the market will let him sell the house for an increased profit two years down the line.

@velexiraptor the contradiction here is that a house exists to be lived in by humans, but under capitalism it becomes more (at least theoretically) profitable to leave the house empty.

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@velexiraptor here is another example of the disconnect: someone who owns five homes in the same city. you cant really use five homes at once, the only reason you would own five homes is because their exchange value allows you to increase your wealth.

@velexiraptor labor is what transforms raw materials (a pile of wood and masonry) into a commodity (a house). but once the transformation is complete, the worker does have any control over or benefit from either its use value or its exchange value. in fact, in many cases production is taking place solely because of the exchange value of the commodity, and its use value is nonexistent. this is alienation.

@dankwraith ok so like, you help build a house, then whoever hired yall to build it just says ok im using this as a speculative instrument and then you go back to apartment hunting for shitty places you can barely afford even though you and your buddies just built a nice house bc you're priced out of the market bc developers are bastards

@dankwraith @velexiraptor The cause of this disconnect is indeed capitalism. Specifically, it is the aspect of capitalism wherein capitalists and lawmakers get into bed together and whisper sweet nothings into one anothers' ears about how they're going to extract rents (in the economic sense) from those who don't have enough money to share beds with lawmakers.

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@dankwraith @velexiraptor It would make little sense to own a house you weren't using in a market where construction was allowed to scale to meet demand. So of course the current owners of homes in any given market do everything in their power to make sure new homes don't get built: zoning, dwelling size minimums, even so-called "affordable housing" requirements all serve the interests of existing homeowners.

@freakazoid @dankwraith i know how this works, i just hadn't connected it back to the labor theory of value

@freakazoid @dankwraith sorry, this was a request to stop explaining things i already know to me

@dankwraith @velexiraptor I blame affordable housing requirements because the only real way to bring down rents is to build enough housing to meet demand. Affordable housing requirements are just a way for politicians to pretend to be doing something about the problem while in fact doing exactly the opposite by discouraging new construction. And the affordable housing advocates go along with it because they don't like the idea of large numbers of small dwellings.

@dankwraith @velexiraptor Even in its heyday, Japan did not have this problem, because construction is regulated at the national level, even in big cities like Tokyo. So while Tokyo was expensive the prices there remained stable because construction was allowed to keep up with demand.

@freakazoid @dankwraith if you want to keep explaining this please do not tag me in it, i know how this works

@velexiraptor @dankwraith Sorry! Hadn't seen your replies. I wrote my replies mostly as one long post.

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