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its really weird how fedilab refused to block gab instances and is now implementing features to evade client blocks that were put in place as a result of this decision. it's almost like there is some kind of sympathizing going on here

anyway the end result of this is that these instances that block fedilab will just start blocking clients that dont identify themselves so, good job i guess

this is like, the textbook definition of enabling abusive behavior. if someone decides they dont want to see posts made with fedilab, don't they have the right to decide that for themselves? what makes you think you have the right to force people to see your posts? fuck you.

look at this post from the developer

framapiaf.org/@fedilab/1024750

"One of the reasons that made me remove the custom user agent from the app. Just for avoiding unfair blocks."

what is an "unfair block"? people have the right to block anything and everything they want to for any reason. done deal.

but this is an illustration of the real conflict behind the "free speech" issue. a certain group of people has got it in their heads that the free speech ethic means that you have the right to force people to listen to whatever trash you spew out of your idiot mouth.

@dankwraith It is the fundamentally ignorant notion that freedom of speech means that all ideas must be not only heard but listened to.

It's an idea so fundamentally in conflict with how signal-to-noise ratios work that only people who are neck-deep in denial could even pretend to hold to it.

@dankwraith freedom of speech is when people aren't allowed to say i'm racist, and the more they aren't allowed to say it, the freedomer it is

@dankwraith he doesn't decide to block nazis, but instead gets to decide which admins are allowed to do what

@kat @dankwraith "I won't be a censorship." wow. really makes you :thonk:

@LexYeen @dankwraith
fedilab dev: "I won't be a censorship."
also fedilab dev: proceeds to be a censorship

@dankwraith I've created an issue report with F-Droid on this, as this is unacceptable, even by the standards set by the dissenters of the previous attempts. If anyone cares to weigh in and give their own opinions to F-Droid, you can find the issue report here:
gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroiddata/i

Please be as respectful as possible, but don't hesitate to report any comments that are disingenuously trying to say that this is fine because there is no excuse this time.

@felix @dankwraith Oh, believe me. This is the final attempt for sure.

And it's really not looking good since one of the two problematic maintainers from the last one came in and shut this one down immediately, marking it as a duplicate of the first despite it having none of the arguments made in that other one and that other one completely locked down from further comments and therefore can't be updated to add to.

@felix @dankwraith
I re-opened it, though, asking for clarification on that front, but as I said, not looking good.

@KitsuneAlicia @dankwraith Yeah I'm following the issues so I saw that. Guess we really have to discuss about forking.

@felix @dankwraith Yup. Hell, even if they remove Fedilab for this, they still have FT promoting Gab's bigotry that they refuse to deal with, so a fork is warranted either way.

@felix @dankwraith Well, fuck that, apparently. The problematic admin used their feelings to ignore and shut down the point being made. Even the Nazis can agree this isn't a proper way to run things.

@felix @dankwraith Seriously, "but muh feelings" is the Nazi talking point and yet this person deliberately used it *in defense of Nazis*!

@dankwraith I'm kinda annoyed everyone is still trying to "convince" the guy to not give Nazis a platform because it's been pretty clear from the start that everything he's doing is just Nazi dogwhistles so like

He's a Nazi. Stop acting like he's not

Fedilab 

@dankwraith
okay, so who's gonna fork fedilab so that gab gets blocked?

IMO the client blocking is terribly shortsighted. I use fedilab for its accessibility features, which Tusky doesn't do as well. Fuck me, right?
And if you block me from posting just because I use that client, you can be sure Imma giving you the finger.

By blocking fedilab you forced tom79 from doing literally nothing to doing something, but it's NOT the something you @dankwraith - 1/3

wanted. :pika:

In any case, sniffing the user agent is not only useless in the long run, it's gonna drag us into browser wars 2.0 and that's gonna do much more harm than good.

I tried my best to talk to Tom about the necessity of blocking gab, but don't you dare punishing fedilab users for something HE did or didn't do.

If you want to do something actually productive about blocking gab, implement the autogab blocker that was posted here a few days @dankwraith - 2/3

go, and forget about the user agent schism shit. @dankwraith - 3/3

@dankwraith
Because one of these days the Nazis are gonna smart up and make new instances that have nothing to do with gab, register rogue users underwater to later suddenly attack us from both fronts. What are you gonna do then? Request Tusky to update their block list?
By then they would already have forked tusky and fedilab and god knows what else.

Rule #1 of infosec: NEVER TRUST THE CLIENT. Whatever security scheme we have to do it needs @dankwraith - 1/2

to be done on the backend. We need to reinforce our antiabuse/antispam tools on Tootsuite. Blocking a client because the author is enabling the other side is barking at the wrong tree. @dankwraith - 2/2

@rick_777 @dankwraith cool thanks for making it clear youre one of these types who think doing anything is bad

@hope
If it's done without thinking it carefully, then yes, it's bad. But my main argument is that blocking a client signature is useless and does more harm than good.. Even if fedilab decides to block gab, a fork will appear and fake the signature.
So in the end what was gained?

Blocking fedilab will not deplatform the nazis and is only effectively a punitive measure.

@dankwraith

@dankwraith Damn shame, as I moved from Tusky to Fedilab because Tusky stopped working but Fedilab works great.

@dankwraith
Somebody is blocking Fedilab users, because he doesn't like the developer?
Did they consider, that they are punishing the wrong persons?

And it doesn't have anything to do with gab, when someone is using Fedilab on an instance that is not gab.

Posted using Fedilab, because it is just one of the best clients.

@allo
It's not the first time a schism like this happened. An instance whose admin is a professional pen tester was blocked because he worked once with (with, not for) certain Law Enforcement agency. They called him a cop and didn't even let him explain.

Sometimes I wonder how out of touch some folk are in here. I won't harass them and let them be because I know traumas exist and it's understandable, but get a grip, ppl. Kneejerk reactions are NOT good, esp. from admins.
@dankwraith

@rick_777 @allo this is completely beside the point. whether or not you think that someone blocking a particular client is a bad idea or not, it is their right to do so and deliberately evading that is suspicious as hell.

@dankwraith
it's not suspicious if there is a legitimate reason. I was here long before gab, but per this block I'm no longer allowed to use said instances.

There is simply zero effectiveness in blocking a client because their users MIGHT use a bad instance that isn't even yours.

This does nothing to protect legitimate users anyway, so what's the point in doing that? Like I told you, it's a punitive measure, and that's inane.

@allo

@rick_777 @allo please explain to me a hypothetical legitimate reason to evade a block.

@dankwraith
I JUST mentioned it!

okay let's try apples and oranges instead.

If I'm using Chrome to enter a website and that site blocks chrome, I'm gonna use a user agent switcher to pretend I'm using IE.

If I don't get into gab, but I'm using fedilab, if your instance blocks me then I have two choices: 1) switch to tusky, accessibility be damned, or use a user agent switcher to pretend I'm not using fedilab. That IS a legitimate use.

@allo

@rick_777 @allo that is not legitimate. someone had decided, for whatever reason, misguided or not, that you were not welcome to use fedilab to interact with their instance, and you chose to disrespect that.

@dankwraith
excuse me??? Since when is blocking people based on their software legitimate in the first place?

This is as ridiculous as arresting someone for resisting arrest. This is turning into a stupid turf war and you people can't even see that.

@rick_777 how could it not be a turf war? im not sure if you noticed but we are dealing with fascists here.

@dankwraith
oh I'm sorry I didn't know using fedilab meant carrying a swastika.

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